HM Revenue and Customs

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HM Revenue & Customs

As our message board shows, the limits set by Customs & Excise have aroused much controversy. Whilst we do not condone bootlegging of tobacco, the "limits" as set by the Government for tobacco were hideously low, no-where near comparable to that available for wine drinkers. For example the wine or champagne limit is 90 litres (120 bottles). Even if you drink per person one bottle a day (generous) your "limit" will last 120 days. Under the old guidelines, if you smoked 20 cigarettes a day on the other hand (conservative) your "limit" lasted just 40 days. Thankfully after much public interest (including our own campaign on behalf of shoppers) these guidelines have now been raised substantially. However, if you are from the North of England you may only make the journey once or twice a year - why should people in the South have a much greater opportunity to buy cheap wine and tobacco?

The guidelines for cigarette smokers (with effect from 29th October 2002) was raised to 3,200 (about 5 1/4 months supply). The Pouch Tobacco (HRT) guideline is now 3 kilograms which (if you use 1/2 pack a day) means 4 months supply. Better news for champagne drinkers in that the old 60 litre guideline now abolished and you can if you wish, buy 90 litres.

Links to their web sites - it seems that their own web site, the usual source of information about appeals and where to telephone, no longer works. Perhaps this is why they can claim only 4% of people who have had their cars confiscated appeal. The main reason of course is that people are too poor to do anything, and downright scared. Latest - anyone appealing now faces costs of £750 at Magistrates Court.

HM Revenue & Customs

Advice line - Tel: 08450 109 000 then press 3. Open: Monday to Friday, 8.00am to 8.00pm.

Dover Office - Customs & Excise; Complaints against HM Revenue & Customs (How to go about it - visit our PROTEST page).

Other Government agencies

Time for an enquiry.

Day-tripper.net has called for a full European Parliamentary Enquiry into this whole messy affair.

We continually press our case for this within the Commission.

The British experience has (because we have the most excessive taxation) highlighted weaknesses within the EU, and ones which will (and are) occurring elsewhere.

Furthermore they will continue with the accession of Poland and other countries to the EU, especially against a background of ever increasing taxes in Germany.

We believe the enquiry should start off by looking at the Maastricht Treaty, which was suppose to be about member states working towards ever closer financial union.

This is why Duty free was abolished - it was to become irrelevant. Moreover its abolition was supposed to speed this happening. The opposite has happened, as the U.K. has increased its tobacco and alcohol taxes faster than other member states.

It should then examine the British Experience, with special reference as to how a Government found it so easy to put aside its citizens freedom to travel freely and without fear, in the interests of revenue collection.

We believe the European Union is not just about the freedom of movement for goods and people for business only, but for the people as well.

There is nothing better at reducing excessive profiteering or taxation and prices, than the ability of the people to shop where it is cheapest.

How to avoid being trapped by Customs & Excise - more

Don't Smuggle! - tempting though it may be to bring back more than your allowance to sell and make a bit a of money, you are breaking the law. The purpose of "buy as much as you like as long as it is for personal consumption" means just what it says.

Which Country in the EU?

- stops its citizens and questions them when they leave their country of domicile?

- stops them on the way home and questions them when they have travelled freely as foreigners in other E.U. member states?

- stops its citizens "on the grounds of security" on the way out, yet asks no questions relating to security matters? (Webbies personal experience)

- assumes that a traveller is guilty of smuggling just because they are on a coach which has been stopped before, with smugglers on board, even where there is no evidence to support such an assumption?

- tells its citizens who have travelled and been found with tobacco "that we do not want to see you again for x many months?" (from e-mails received from shoppers complaining about their treatment).

- suggests it is fighting smugglers, yet concentrates most of its resources "frustrating" shoppers and travellers? More

- monitors its citizens movements into and out of its territory? (coach companies are now required to pass on details of their passengers to the cross channel companies).

- suggests there are guidelines, yet routinely says to coach passengers "right, anyone over the guidelines is having their goods confiscated?" (from e-mails received from shoppers complaining about their treatment).

- spends most of its resources stopping shoppers than finding drugs?

- routinely describes anyone who complains as "not credible"? More

- expects companies to "police" their own customers, and seizes the coaches of companies who have not turned away any repeat travellers?

- regards it as acceptable that many of its citizens are too scared to take their own cars abroad?

- automatically confiscates from people on benefit "because they cannot afford to travel"?

- Has a Customs & Excise which admits that "to be effective we have to work right at the limit of what is achievable"? More

Diary

July 16th - Oh dear. Mr. Newbury who won a recent High Court Case against Customs was stopped and threatened with the confiscation of his car yesterday. Seems it is true that anyone who has suffered a seizure before, whether or not they win in Court or at Tribunal are permanently targeted.

June 2nd - Sadly it seems that Customs are rediscovering old and bad ways. Coaches are now being targeted with anyone on board a coach who they suspect of "aiding" smugglers losing their goods, regardless of their explanations. We are keeping the issue alive in Europe and welcome comments from British shoppers.

April 10th 2003 - once again your web master, who does not smoke or buy tobacco, was stopped at Coquelles, France, presumably because he travels frequently. With a business in Prague selling British products, I drive a Czech car and travel frequently between the U.K., France and the Czech Republic. Today for example I visited shops and supermarkets in the course of research to maintain this site. I also held discussions with two wine buyers with regard to selling wine in Prague. No doubt Customs view people like me, who represent their countries abroad, as highly dubious characters. Perhaps they would like to think about this, and understand my anger at not only being stopped frequently, but having to deal with their often extremely ignorant remarks ("you sell wine and chemicals - funny combination that").

March 2003 - Customs are now suggesting to victims that they will not consider a review unless Tribunal appeals are withdrawn. We are following this up. Whatever they may feel about shoppers and travellers the right to appeal is a basic Human Right. It considerably saddens us at day-tripper.net, that despite repeated Court losses and bad publicity HM C&E are continuing with their negative behaviour. The fight for a fair and civil Customs goes on.

January 2003 - Cars are being offered back to victims BEFORE Tribunal hearings, but no compensation. The fight goes on.

October 2002 - New limits for cigarettes (3,200) and HRT (3 kgs) introduced with immediate effect! The same old system however stays in place. The fight goes on.

September 2002 - Their scandalous behaviour continues. HM C&E are now even changing Courts Summons. Don't agree - fight your cases on the laws that were applied to you at the time.

August 2002 - Confusion reigns - HM C&E are now stopping people at Dover ON THE WAY OUT and asking where they are going and how much money they have. DISGRACEFUL! On the Press Release front they are issuing more "Large amounts of tobacco seized" type releases. The propaganda war of intimidation continues.

July 2002 - GOOD NEWS - Hoverspeed, who bravely took the Government to Court have WON their case. More

February 2001 - a very intensive Customs & Excise effort is going on at the moment - the penalties are severe (confiscation of your car). Don't assume you will be treated like a criminal and get your fare home - you won't.

Our view

If the Government is happy to accept foreign investment here because our social taxes are lower, why can't British citizens benefit from the lower prices in other European countries where social taxes are higher, but spending taxes and duties so much lower?

Yet another case of Britain being in Europe for what we can get out of it, rather than for what we can contribute and share.

No wonder we are all so offended by HM Customs and Excise!

From a Parliamentary question and Answer session with the Treasury Minister, Mr. Healey.

Mrs. Lawrence: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what seizures have been made by the Pembroke local Customs team (a) in and (b) outside their own area in the past two years. [118531]

John Healey: The Pembroke Customs team have made one significant seizure, of 1. 2 million cigarettes, in Pembroke in the past two years. This seizure was a result of a specific operation, based on intelligence gathered from outside Wales. In addition, the team made a small number of minor seizures of cigarettes, hand rolled tobacco, spirits and beer, in Pembroke and Fishguard.

Elsewhere, over the last two years, the Pembroke Customs team seized 481,290 cigarettes at Cardiff International Airport, and made a small number of minor seizures of cigarettes and hand rolled tobacco elsewhere.

The Pembroke Customs team made no significant drug seizures over the past two years.

Treasury Sub Committee on Wednesday 4 June 2003

On drugs seizures;

Q12 Mr. Beard: Just on the report whilst we are there, the report at Appendix 2, page 24, shows that you were much less successful this year, in the year 2002 to 2003, in seizing Class A drugs. You seized 6,900 kilos compared with just over 9,000 kilos last year. This is not explained or elaborated anywhere, so what is the reason? WEBBIE - THIS IS A 23% REDUCTION.

On tobacco seizures;

Q21 Mr. Beard: The obvious question is, if you can recoup £2 billion as readily as this implies, why has it taken so long to do it?

Mr. Broadbent: I am not sure that it is readily. It has taken us nearly two years' work to get to this stage. It has also taken a very fundamental reorientation of the organisation to get us to think in this way. However, it can be done. If you take, for example, the tobacco strategy, which is the first of the strategy put in place two years ago now, that has yielded an additional £1. 5 billion of revenue at fixed duty rates.

BUT GOOD NEWS! - More MONEY has been raised from tobacco;

Q78 Mr. Ruffley: Minister, the reduction in the volume of cigarettes successfully smuggled into the U.K. in 2001/2 was cut by a billion which the annual report states is a drop of around five per cent, the first time this has happened for a decade. Why this amazing success? How has it been done?

John Healey: It has been done by an investment of over £200 million. It has been done by many more staff working on the tobacco strategy. It has been done also by the introduction of new x-ray and scanning equipment at some of the major freight ports, which is where the vast bulk of smuggled tobacco and cigarettes come into this country.

Working up to the limit - Mr. Broadbent before a Parliamentary Committee

Not Credible?

Duty, VAT & Allowances

Allowances - no actual limit (so they say - but just try exceeding the "limits") but if you have more than the guidelines below, Customs will require you to prove the items are for your personal use.

How they prove you are a smuggler; We had hoped that the new procedures meant they would have to provide real evidence. However after speaking to their advice line it is clear nothing has changed. For example, before 29th October 2002, you had to prove you were not a smuggler. Now the Customs Officer must do so. BUT, the criteria are exactly the same. For example how often you travel is taken into account. They will still assume if stopped that you must have had the same quantity of goods on other journeys. This is not "evidence" that would stand up in a Criminal Court. But it counts in deciding if you are a smuggler according to the Customs interpretation of the word. They were unable to say if you would automatically be subject to a seizure in future if you had already had a notice one. Is the position now clearer? No, of course not. Before you had to satisfy them the goods were for your own use, now the Customs Officer has to be satisfied (through questioning) they are. Confused? We are.

The penalties are not clear either. It's up to the individual Customs Officer to decided what it should be. Too much power in the hands of one individual? We think so.

The penalties to keep your car do not involve keeping the goods "as it is a fine". You still do not have the option to offer to pay the duty either. They were unable to tell me if you could pay the fine there or whether you had to go through an appeals process.

Sadly the procedures remain Civil not Criminal - it is still possible to assume guilt on the basis of probability (because you travel frequently for example) and seize, rather than provide real evidence (such as - he was stopped three times with goods). It is irrelevant whether you had goods or not - all it still takes is the Officer to decide you did.

Nothing is very clear at the moment - even the advisor said it was not black and white. If they don't know, how can a member of the public?

HM Revenue & Customs guidelines suggest the following quantities;

Alcohol; Wine OR Champagne - 90 litres (120 bottles), Spirits - 10 litres, Fortified wines (such as port or sherry) - 20 litres, Beer - 110 litres (just over 10 cases /200 pints).

Tobacco; Cigarettes - 3,200 (800), Cigarillos - 400, Cigars - 200, Smoking tobacco - 3 kg (1 kg). (OLD guidelines in Brackets).

Anyone telling you to ignore these guidelines is described by Customs as very irresponsible and likely to get you into serious trouble (after they've taken your money that is). Anyone whom Customs and Excise deems is smuggling faces severe penalties, usually involving the confiscation of your vehicle.

Excise Duty in the U.K. and the EU

Considerable sums of money are raised from excise duties and other taxes on alcohol and tobacco. For example the French raise 103 million euro from wine taxes, in the U.K. we raise 2,983 million - over 29 times more than France. Even on beer we raise over 15 times more. On unleaded petrol we raise 2. 5 times as much. On tobacco we raise more than three times as much revenue. Compared with Belgium its even worse, they raise just 1/10th the amount we do (U.K. 9.8 times more).

From the Imperial Tobacco Company April 2002 - Cost of 20 cigarettes;

U.K. £4-40 total taxation £3-51, Rep. of Ireland £3-20 total taxation £2-49, France £2-22 total taxation £1-69, Belgium £1-98 total taxation £1-45, Luxembourg £1-61 total taxation £1-07, Greece £1-54 total taxation £1-12, Spain £1-54 total taxation £1-09.

Customs and Excise web information; www.hmrc.gov.uk

U.K. Excise Rate - tobacco; www.netconnected.com/_connected/ECU_RATES/excise (click cancel if a you get a message about frames).

European Excise rates. Tobacco / Alcohol (PDF files).

Trying to prove you are not a smuggler.

Buying tobacco over the internet.

The sort of e-mails we get about HM Customs and Excise

Illiterate nonsense from Customs and Excise

This is body of a letter sent to a shopper enquiring about VAT due on something bought abroad.

Dear Mr. X

Re: electrical goods

Thank you for your e-mail dated 7 May 2003 regarding the purchase of a plasma screen TV on the continent or in Dixon's at the Chunnel hub and bring them back to the U.K. for your personal use.

I can confirm there is no reason for you to purchase goods on the continent and bring back to the U.K. U.K.here won't be any duty to pay and also you won't have any input VAT to pay as you would have already paid any VAT in the member state you purchased the goods from. I would advise you to keep with you on your return to the U.K. The receipt for the goods, as you may need to show it at customs control as proof of VAT already paid.

I hope the above information is to your satisfaction and please do not hesitate to contact the National Advice Service should you require further guidance.

The Right to Silence - www.abd.org.uk/righttosilence

Tobacco Restrictions for the New Member States

Whose to blame for the mess we are in?

Interestingly, a recent poll on this site came up with the result that 90% of you blame the ex Chancellor Mr. Brown and not Customs and Excise.

Run your car on Cooking Oil!